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Informal Conversation

by Chariji, January 21, 2007, Tiruppur, India.

Q: Master how to remove hesitation?

Master: Hesitation? Hesitation is only your own fear of something. Surely your people were not happy when you came to Kerala, they cannot be. “Oh, Kerala! We don’t know what sort of people they are, they speak Malayalam, as if it is the trumpeting of elephants. What will you do for food?” They don’t understand people in Kerala also eat, and we can always eat what they eat. Your family must have said, “What will you eat in Kerala?” and they would have tied up some fish or meat or whatever you eat there, as if it will last you forever. Isn’t it?

Here you find so many people, so many people from so many foreign countries also, like the French boy sitting there. He is Ayurvedic, he went to Ayurvedic college for four years, no?—Five years. He can tell you all the names in Sanskrit. And our people go to America to learn medicine. What is right, what is wrong?

Our system of meditation says, we have in our inside what we call samskara—the effect of thoughts and actions of the past. I mean it need not be thousand years ago, it can be yesterday also. Yesterday, a man drinks too much—today, he has headache. This you are able to connect because cause and effect are within your perception, field of perception. But suppose you did something last year and the result comes today; like you took a loan five years back and bought a car and a television, because you are expecting a job with Infosys. It didn’t happen. Now five years later they are wanting the money back. People will say, “What has happened to this girl? She was so happy. She got a car, she got a TV set. Suddenly everything is gone.” Now this is more difficult to associate the cause with the effect, isn’t it?

Suppose you did something in childhood, let us say you had polio (God forbid) and one leg is shorter. Now you are not able to walk, you have to go like this [limping]. Now they start blaming God because they do not know the cause. So whenever there is no cause in our perception, we blame God. “God is blind. Why this poor child is limping?” and suppose it had in a previous existence, then surely God is to blame. “Nahi yaar! [No, friend.] You did that in the previous life.”

You know in the Ramayana, you know the Ramayana? Dasharatha, when he was a prince, he goes hunting and it’s evening time and he hears something like an animal drinking water, and on the sound he shoots and he kills a boy. The boy is carrying his blind parents on his shoulders slowly, and they curse him, because he [the son] was their only support, now they will also die. What will two blind people do in the jungle? They say, “You’ll also die after shock of your son’s death”—putrashoka. Later on, when Lord Rama goes to the forest, he [Dasharatha] dies of putrashoka.

So there is always relationship between what I do and what is happening to me later. God does not interfere. God interferes when we intercommunicate with Him here [pointing to the heart] in meditation. But He cannot remove these worldly things, material things. Spiritually, He can elevate. You see, like when you have a lot of pain you take some medicine—aspirin. If it is too much, they give you something to sedate, you go to sleep. So what you cannot overcome, you have to use an outside influence, isn’t it? Before surgery, you have to have an anaesthetic so that you don’t feel, although it is there.

Spirituality does it most effectively. It improves your strength to bear more and more until you can bear everything without anything—greatest benefit of spiritual life, isn’t it? Therefore, in a sense, a man who is really spiritual, he doesn’t care who is sitting before him. There may be a king, there may be a beggar, there may be scientists, there may be poor people, educated, not educated; to him they are all human beings. All are human beings with different qualifications. That somebody is tall, somebody is short; somebody is fair, somebody is dark; they are only descriptions, like coconut trees. We don’t look at them because we don’t want to see. But there are also some tall, some short, they may be having it within themselves—arrogance, ego, “I am the tallest tree.” Another says, “So what? I give the maximum number of coconuts.” We don’t know. So until we know the language of trees, birds, bees, we don’t know what they are saying.

There was a great emperor, Vikramaditya. He was supposed to be able to listen to bees and ants, birds, and through that he knew the state of his nation. Now what exactly is the language of bees and birds? We don’t have to think immediately, they speak. Modern science says that even when there is going to be an earthquake, for instance, certain birds start flying away, migrating, ants start moving, deer start moving; they perceive it much before humans do. Now if we were familiar with that, you would say, “Why these things are suddenly leaving? Let me also go.” Science is now discovering all this, last twenty years, thirty years.

So, nature has to teach us; all knowledge here comes only by observation—that is knowledge of the outside world. Higher knowledge comes from knowledge of yourself. I am sick—I suffer. Therefore if somebody is suffering, he must be sick. Then you become compassionate; you become sympathetic. You don’t say, “Oh that man’s always sick. Nonsense! Throw him out of class.” You’ll send him to the doctor, go and sit with him, “What is wrong with you? Why do you get again and again the same thing?”

So unless you suffer you cannot understand the suffering of somebody else. Suppose you are a marathon runner and you are taking your grandmother to a temple. And she is walking dedang dedang dedang dedang you know, and you go forward and shout, “Nani, chalo jaldi.” [Grandmother, come fast.] “Bete hum kya karen, budi ho gayi hoon mein.” [Son what do I do? I have become old.] Then you get angry. “Nahin le aana tha tumko. Too wahan kyon nahi reh gayi?  Musibat! Musibat!” [I should not have brought you here. Why didn’t you stay there? Nuisance!] Whereas, if you suffer, you will see how much she suffers. Then you’ll say, “Nani dheere chalte hain. Koi jaldi nahi hai. Aaj nahi to kal dekh lete hain mandir.” [Grandmother we’ll walk slowly. There is no hurry. If not today, we’ll see the temple tomorrow.] See how your behaviour changes?

Without suffering there is no humanness in the heart. People who never suffer are only machines. They are impatient; they are intolerant; they are unsympathetic; they are unkind; they are selfish. So spirituality teaches all these things. We don’t all have to become saints. Saints have a place in life. Somebody should be there to teach us what to do, you know. Like you require professors of medicine and also doctors—practicing doctors. You need forestry teachers and you need students who will become foresters. They cannot all teach. He may not be able to go to the jungle today and run away from an elephant. He can only point his camera and hope it will think it’s a gun and run away—the long lens.

You know, my uncle was once in the Assam forest and he was on a walk, it had rained that night. He was in the centre, mid jungle, not like Coimbatore Forest College, middle jungle. His house was built on a machan [observation tower]. There were tigers in the garden every night. And as he was going, water was dripping, and suddenly “Grrrr!” you know. And he saw a tigress in front and two cubs and he backed, because you don’t turn around. He backed away, you know. “Grrrrrr!” from behind, and the lord and master of that family was there. He had nobody with him, no gun. But he had an umbrella. With great presence of mind tadak he opened the umbrella, and they all ran away.

So you see, spiritual life is necessary to become human. Human means loving, compassionate—two things. You understand? Compassion means you know what? Sahaanubhooti, we say you know in Hindi, commonly—to feel what others feel and so know them. You understand? A man may look very strong, very proud, very arrogant, but inside you know he is sick. He doesn’t want to go to a doctor, but he wants the doctor to come to him. So if you are a doctor, you must be able to say, and without harming his self-respect, you must say, “Well you know, why don’t we meet in my clinic tomorrow?” He says, “No, no, I don’t need any doctors.” Like my friend here—“Oh Master, I don’t need anybody.” They are the people who need most. Then tell him, “No, no, I want you to come and see my clinic. I hear you are an architect… (whatever you know). I want some advice. Why don’t you come and give me some advice.” Then he is happy, “Okay, nine o’ clock? I can’t afford more than ten minutes. And don’t be late, doctor!” Then he comes, then you make him sit, give him a cup of tea and then write out a prescription and say, “It’s just you know… I think it’s better that you should take this immediately.” In his heart he is very happy because without asking, without revealing his weakness, he has got it. Everybody suffers like that.

The most of human suffering is because of pride, arrogance. “I am Maharaja of Palanpur, Himachal Pradesh. Palanpur is a beautiful place, beautiful!” So what? You are also a human being. So we have to make it possible for them to come.

When I was studying in BHU, sometimes I was sick. I was in my hostel, but I could make birds come, you know, sitting and whistling. They would go from one branch to one tree to that tree and then come from here, and then go back, and then come again. Finally, they are on my windowsill. Takes two hours, three hours, sometimes.

So when you want something to come you have to be patient. Whether it is success or love or spirituality. Love requires most patience. If you run after a boy, he will run away. No man likes to be chased by a woman, he likes to chase—fundamental female logic, remember this. The moment a woman chases a man, he is afraid for his life and he will run. I am not joking. You may be Aishwarya Rai herself. You must make him chase you. Samajh gayi? (Understand?) But in where you want them to come, you have to be very patient, “Oh! Aap kaun?” [Who are you?] “Aishwarya Rai.” “Satbir, who is Aishwarya Rai? I heard the name somewhere. Can you tell me?” “Famous actress, sir!” “Famous actress? This one?”—you know. I mean these are worldly techniques. But for God, we have to be most patient. Some people come, “Sir I have been meditating for six months. I have not seen anything yet.” “Arre, you have not seen your boss in six months, and you want to see God!” Isn’t it?

So this is a short exposition of what spiritual life is—patience, longing. And when you have longing you only think of what you are longing for. So that is constant remembrance. So when you are in constant remembrance, it comes.

There is a beautiful story in the Mahabharata, that Radha, you know she was Lord Krishna’s premi [lover]. And when he goes away, she is, “Krishna! Krishna! Krishna!” you know, she is only meditating on him, when he goes. Suddenly she becomes Krishna and she starts saying her own name, “Radhe! Radhe! Radhe!” like that.

So that is the beauty of constant remembrance. And constant remembrance is a power for anything. Successful people are people who think only of their careers all the time—twenty-four hours. You want money, you get money; you want success in love you get—one object in the mind. In meditation, it’s the highest. The law is the same, the process is the same, the effect is the same. You understand?

Q: Durai sir was saying that he brought this D.I.G. to Master and that the D.I.G was very careful about his career. He asked Master, “What happens if I become an abhyasi. It’s like a straight path, you know. What happens to my career?” Master is supposed to have said, “If I give you ten rupees, don’t ask me in that ten rupees, if one rupee is there or not. Everything is taken care.” Something similar…

Master: You know, they say in the Christian religion, “All this and heaven too!” Suna hoga aap logo ne. [You people must have heard it.] I say, “Heaven, and all this too!” Simple reversal.

When you marry your husband, everything that is his is yours. You will not say, “Now I want to marry your almirah where you keep your money.” “I want to marry your kitchen.” He will say, “Pyare [Dear], you have married me, everything I have is yours.” Bachha hai. Gaadi khadi hai baahar. Poochiye kiski gaadi hai toh kahega, “Yeh meri gaadi hai.” It will not say, “Mere baap ki gaadi hai.” [There is a child. Their car is parked outside. Ask the child whose car it is, and it will say, “My car.” It will not say, “My father’s car.”]  

Now we are God’s children, this is God’s universe. I am His child, this is my world. But I say, “No no, that is France, this is England, this is Tejo Tajo, that is Lago Bogo,” you know. I suffer.

What is this? [Pointing to his leg] What is this?

Q: Leg.

Master: No! It is me. Everybody says, “My leg.” Now who is this who says, “My leg”? This is the answer to spirituality. There is something inside me which says the body is mine, isn’t it? The body by itself cannot say. Can the body say, “This is my body”? Because when you say, “This is mine,” the two are separate. So when I say, “This is my body,” ‘I’ who say this, and that about which I speak, they are two things. So I am not my body; I have a body. Therefore when I die, I am not dead, my body is gone—simple truth. This is my apple, whereas after you eat, I say, “Where is your apple?” But still it is not yours, it’s only part of your body. So they say, “Ayyo, jab main mar jaoongi, yeh apple kaun khayega? Yeh santra kaun khayega?” [When I die, who will eat this apple? Who will eat this orange?] Hai na? Samajh gayi? We have to cut this identification with the body. Main aur mera sharir [me and my body]—they are two things. Main, mera ghar. Ghar chodke kya ham nahi jaate? [Me, my house. Don’t we leave our house and go?]We are not sad. Bhai ghar nahi chodenge toh! Roz toh do bar chodna padta hai, naukri karte hain, school jaate hain. Bachpan se shuroo hota hai na yeh chodna. [If we don’t leave our house, what would happen? Everyday we have to leave twice. We work, go to school, it’s from our childhood—this leaving.]

So when you get into spiritual life you are also taught that this body is not yours, it is for the time being you are occupying, you are a tenant in your body. So I am a tenant in this body; me and my body are tenants in this house; me, my body and this house are in Tiruppur; me, my body, this house and Tiruppur are in Tamilnadu. You see, one inside the other. We acquire one by one, but when we leave, everything is left in one stroke. I don’t have to leave India first and then Tamilnadu first and then Tiruppur first and then this house and then my body. Yeh bartan hote hain na, ek ke andar ek. [There are these vessels, one inside the other.] To use what you need, one by one you have to take. Isme yeh banaya, usme chai ke liye pani rakha, [cooked something in one, in that one made tea] but to throw away, you put everything inside and throw it away, one lot. “Yeh bartan ek ek karke pheko.”[Throw away these vessels one by one!] What will you tell your husband? “Aap bevkoof hain, main karti hoon, aap jayiye phekiye.” [You are a fool, I’ll do it. You go throw something else!] Nahin? [No?] So it is all very simple, you know. Spirituality is nothing to be complicated. Preceptors make it complicated.

Q: Master, Babuji said that whenever you have some doubt or problems always refer to your heart than to your mind. But, Master, when I am referring to my heart I don’t know if the answer is coming from mind or heart.

Master: You always know, but you don’t get the answer you want. That is why. You must accept the answer. But it’s like going to a post office and saying, “Give me half a kilo bhindi [lady’s finger],” woh kahan se dega? Post office me kya dega? Stamp dega, nahi? “Behenji, bhindi chahiye toh who dukan hai, sabjiwale ka wahan jayiye.” [How will he give you that? What will they give in the Post Office? They will give stamps. No? “Sister, you want lady’s finger, then there is that vegetable seller. Go to him!”]

So this heart says, “I am telling you the truth. If you want the truth, come to me. For everything else there are millions of shops, you go and buy,” you see. Corruption ke liye dukan hai, bribery ke liye dukan hai, murder ke liye dukan hai, rape ke liye dukan hai. Kiske liye kya dukan nahi hai? Tamaam hai. Sachhayi keval yahan. [There are many shops for corruption, bribery, murder, rape, everything. But the truth can be found here alone.]

So if you refer here [the heart], you must expect only the truth and when it comes, you know it is the truth. But you want what you want, you know. “No, no, why does it not give me the answer I want?” “Mujhe unse shaadi karni hai, lekin yeh kehta hai, nahi”. Toh hruday poochega toh, “Hamse phir poocha kyoun?” Yeh aisa hai ki, doctor ke paas gaye, “Sooyi mat lagayiye.” Arre woh kya karega bechara? Sooyi lagani jaise bimari ho toh sooyi toh lagayega na. [“I want to get married to him. But the heart says no…” Then if the heart were to ask, “Why did you ask me then?” This is like going to a doctor, and saying, “Don’t give me an injection!” What will he do? The poor fellow! If the illness requires an injection then he has to give it to you. Isn’t it?]

So don’t go unless you are prepared to face the truth. You understand?

Thank you everybody. Blessings to all of you.